In today’s episode, Kate shares a unique discussion she had with her friend, Jillian Leslie, over on The Blogger Genius Podcast. It was too good not to share with our Simple Pin listeners! Their conversation dives into some important business changes happening in blogging, digital marketing, and Pinterest strategy.
Kate and Jillian talk about what the future holds for Pinterest marketing, insights into blogging in 2025, and tips for creating a sustainable online business.
Blogging and Pinterest Marketing
Jillian: Kate, welcome back to the Blogger Genius Podcast!
Kate: Thank you so much for having me back. It’s always a pleasure to reconnect, both personally and in this crazy online space.
Jillian: I know you’re a Pinterest expert, and we’ll definitely get into that. But before we dive into Pinterest, digital marketing, blogging, and all the big business changes that have happened recently, can you briefly share who you are and what you do for anyone who might not know?
Kate: Sure! I run a company called Simple Pin Media. We’re primarily an agency, but we also have a podcast and an education arm with several digital products, all focused on Pinterest. We’ve been doing this for 11 years. Our goal is to help businesses figure out how to leverage Pinterest effectively. We create strategies based on what’s happening on the platform and how to make it work for people’s marketing. A lot of our education is about whether Pinterest is the right fit for a business and how it can be integrated into a broader marketing plan.
Is Pinterest Still a Visual Search Engine?
Jillian: I love that. Now, I feel like I ask you this every time, but is Pinterest still a visual search engine?
Kate: Yes, 100%. It’s still a visual search engine, and it’s still one of the top traffic drivers out there, among all the so-called “social media platforms.”
The Future of Organic Traffic on Pinterest
Jillian: What about organic traffic? Is Pinterest still a good platform for that, or is it now a “pay-to-play” space?
Kate: It’s still a great platform for organic traffic. But that said, one of the bigger business changes we’ve seen on Pinterest this year is that they are really integrating paid ads in a way that can help boost your results. If you have products or want to generate leads, leveraging paid ads on Pinterest can really work in your favor. But organic traffic is still valuable if you approach it strategically.
Pinterest in 2024: Navigating Business Changes
Jillian: Okay, let’s talk about Pinterest in 2024 and those business changes we’ve all had to endure. It’s been a wild ride for bloggers and online entrepreneurs. What have you seen this year?
Kate: There’s been a lot of business changes, especially when it comes to ad revenue. I interviewed someone on my podcast recently, and she was hit hard by a Google update. She was making around $10,000 to $15,000 a month, but by early 2024, that had dropped to about $800 a month. It’s been crushing for many creators who relied on ad income. The past few years have shown us how dependent we were on that easy, passive revenue stream, and now many creators are reevaluating their business models.
The Decline in Traffic Across Platforms
Jillian: That’s tough. It seems like there’s a bigger picture here, with a general decrease in traffic across platforms, including Pinterest. Do you think that’s the new normal?
Kate: Yes, it feels like there’s this “blanket” over traffic from all sources—Google, Pinterest, everywhere. It’s like we’re all asking, “What is this blanket, and how do we get out from under it?” The truth is, this could be the new normal. Traffic is down for many, but it’s not the same for everyone.
Adapting to the Changing Landscape
Jillian: I’ve seen that too. I think a lot of creators have been in shock this year. But some creators haven’t been as heavily impacted. I was talking to Megan Porta, who works with food bloggers, and she mentioned that some bloggers are doing fine but aren’t necessarily public about it. Not everyone has been hit hard by these larger business changes we’ve seen in the online world. Take my blog, Catch My Party. We still get a lot of traffic from Pinterest, and we haven’t been affected as much. I think it’s because we’ve been on Pinterest for so long, and we’ve built that consistent presence. We have close to 2 million Pinterest followers, and we’re trusted, so Pinterest hasn’t tightened the spigot as much for us. But if I were trying to grow that now, I think it would be much harder.
Kate: That’s a good point—staying consistent over the long run can help weather those shifts. It’s not about instant results; it’s about building momentum. When we look at creators today, the ones who have been established on Pinterest, like you, have been able to hold steady. Someone even said to me, “I haven’t grown, but I haven’t lost either, and I consider that a win.”
But for newer creators—those who started in 2018, 2019, or even 2020—there was a huge boost when Pinterest’s user base doubled during the pandemic. Now, with the world opening up again, those users have tapered off, and that shift has made a difference.
And then we’ve got AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini, which add even more complexity to the landscape. For those who’ve seen a decline, it can feel like insult to injury. So it’s crucial to step back and assess the bigger picture. It’s not necessarily just you. If it were you, though, what would you do differently to maintain steady growth?
Related: Business Tips When It’s Hard
Rebuilding and Resetting Business Strategies
Jillian: You’re so right. We all got a little carried away with the traffic and the ad revenue, and even though we knew the good times wouldn’t last forever, we didn’t want to prepare for the day after. It was too good for too long, and people got used to the ride. And I think the longer you’ve been in the game, the more you’ve seen these ups and downs, but this recent upswing was so big that it felt like we could just coast. And I don’t think many creators thought of their blogs as businesses back then. It was more about gaming Google, getting good at keyword research, creating pins that worked, and eventually hitting pay dirt. But now, it’s all coming to a head–now we’re waking up with a hangover, realizing we didn’t build businesses that solve problems or create real value. And for a lot of creators, that’s a rude awakening.
Kate: Right, and that creates a domino effect. If someone’s not making money, they can’t afford tech tools or help, so they cut expenses, which impacts the people they rely on.
I’ve seen a lot of people in the last six months say, “I’m out. I can’t do this anymore.” And I get it! There have been times over the last couple of years when I’ve asked myself, “Is this it for me?” But you have to look at it through the lens of a small business owner. I drive through neighborhoods and see all these small businesses—like nail salons or small food places—and I wonder how they stay afloat with all the competition. They do it by being committed to their product and their customers. They ask themselves, “Do I feel strongly enough about what I offer to keep going?” And that’s the same question creators need to ask themselves. Am I in this for the long haul, even when it’s hard?
A New Mindset for Content Creators
Jillian: Absolutely. I’ve been doing podcasts with experts, and a common theme is that we’re all kind of resetting. Take Catch My Party as an example—we had success early on because we were one of the first movers on Pinterest, but now that’s not as much of a superpower. Everyone’s starting from scratch. The old playbooks aren’t reliable anymore.
Now it’s all about experimenting, testing, and putting out content that’s helpful. You need to build a community around your business, and then you can potentially monetize, whether it’s through products, services, or brand partnerships. It’s a new mindset.
There is potential in all of that. It’s a hard time for sure, but there’s also opportunity.
Building the Foundations for Long-Term Success
Kate: To your point, I joined an entrepreneurial organization in 2021, and one of the things they emphasize is not giving advice, but sharing experience. That’s what I want to hear—what’s working for others, what are they trying? Not some “proven” method, but real stories.
We often jump straight to looking for experience shares before we’ve mastered the foundations. It’s like asking someone how to market a Shopify store when you haven’t even built your store properly yet. You need to build those foundational elements first. But once you do, those experience shares can be gold.
Jillian: Exactly. And when it comes to Pinterest, there are a few foundational things to focus on. Can you walk us through those?
Defining Your Purpose on Pinterest
Kate: Of course! The first is knowing why you’re using the platform. Even if you’ve been on it for years, it’s worth revisiting. Are you using Pinterest for traffic, sales, or email signups? Once you define that, it will guide your strategy.
Refreshing Your Profile for Maximum Impact
Kate: Then take a fresh look at your profile. Does it clearly reflect who you are and what you do? Are you using keywords in all the right places—board names, descriptions, pin titles, pin descriptions? It’s easy to overlook, but it makes a huge difference in how Pinterest serves your content.
Using Pinterest Trends to Guide Your Keyword Strategy
Kate: When you are searching for keywords, use tools like the Pinterest Trends tool to see what people are actually searching for. You want to ensure your keywords are relevant to what users are looking for, not just what you think they’re looking for.
A couple of months ago, we refreshed our keywords because we noticed a drop in traffic. We looked at the search results and saw what was working for others, so we updated our keywords to align better with what Pinterest was prioritizing.
Related: Pinterest Trends Tool
The Importance of Visuals on Pinterest
Kate: Finally, don’t forget to pay attention to your images. Pinterest is a visual platform, so make sure your images resonate with what people are searching for. You should analyze your own data, but also see what’s working in the feed. There’s a balance between standing out and fitting in. Use your brand colors, but be mindful of what people are clicking on.
Embracing Failure and Testing New Ideas
Jillian: So to tie it all together—freshen up your account, review your competitors and trends, and always prioritize data over gut feelings when it comes to what’s working. It’s not just about what looks good to you; it’s about what’s actually converting.
And I’ll also say this: when it comes to creating digital products, don’t be afraid of failure. You’ll only know if something works by testing it. Even big companies fail—Pepsi Clear, anyone? You’ll have way less exposure, so don’t worry if your product flops. It’s part of the process.
Kate: Yes! And remember, nobody’s going to remember if your product flops. You’re the only one who will dwell on it. Test things, learn from feedback, and keep trying. It’s all about getting experience and data to refine your approach.
Jillian: Absolutely. You’ll never know what works unless you try, and that’s where success starts. Keep testing, keep experimenting, and don’t be afraid to pivot when needed.
Adapting to New Trends: From Courses to Live Communities
Kate: You know, I could never release the course that I did in 2016 now because we have TikTok.
Jillian: I was just going to say that! It’s funny because at that time everybody needed a course. I’m going to argue whether this is right or wrong, that because of TikTok, we think we can watch four TikToks and completely understand and master a certain skill. Therefore, certain courses are no longer relevant. You can just go to TikTok and boom, somehow now you’re an email marketing expert.
The shift in 2024 has really been membership classes. Now, I build a community of people interested in email marketing, and we show up live together. What’s powerful is that it’s not just about me. It’s about the group, learning together, sharing insights, and supporting each other. The idea of creating 10 videos and packaging them into a course often feels overwhelming. People tend to think the videos need to be perfect, requiring expensive editors and tons of preparation before launching. Plus, going through a course solo can feel isolating, and most people don’t follow through to the end.
Kate: I love that you brought that up because we created and launched the Inner Circle this year. This is a six-to-seven-week program that guides people through setting up their Pinterest strategy. By the end, they can either hand it off to a team or manage it themselves. There’s no pre-recorded content. You’ll work live with my team, who are experts in Pinterest, as we walk you through the process. We’ll hold you accountable to finish, just like we do with our clients. I’ve noticed that by week five, some people panic because they haven’t completed the work.
This comes from the old course model where you buy something and let it sit in your inbox, with no accountability. That’s what we wanted to change. If you’re willing to spend two to four hours a week, we’ll help you learn Pinterest marketing in six weeks. After that, you’ll have everything you need and won’t need another comprehensive course. We continue supporting them through an alumni group.
We’re finishing our third cohort now and the transformation through this model is far greater than traditional memberships or courses. We keep the group small, 15 to 20 people, and provide structured guidance. We answer questions and make sure you take action, so you’re not stuck.
The Importance of Human Connection in a Digital World
Jillian: There’s so much power in showing up live, especially in this age of AI. You might be able to find information quickly, but the human connection is what makes it valuable.
Today, just hanging out with you, talking business, and seeing your smile—that’s what matters to me.
Kate: Yes, and that human aspect is something I’ve learned from EO. It’s about being real, sharing what we’ve learned, and meeting people where they are. For example, I recently asked my newsletter subscribers what they wanted to see more of. I get so immersed in Pinterest, I don’t always know their pain points.
Someone came back with, “I want to know what’s working for your clients.” They didn’t want a magic answer, they wanted those real experiences I talked about earlier.
People want the smaller, intimate communities. It’s about building closer connections and hearing their struggles.
During a Simple Pin town hall, I realized that many were focusing on the wrong things with Pinterest. Questions like how many times to pin per day kept coming up, but the real issue was that they hadn’t mastered the basics. If you’re asking about pin frequency, it’s likely because you haven’t focused on crucial foundations like targeting the right keywords or creating intentional Pinterest images. Until those steps are in place, worrying about pinning frequency is out of order. I wouldn’t have realized this without several of those virtual town halls, where I heard firsthand what people were struggling with.
Pinterest Tactics
Jillian: That’s so insightful. Now, can we do a lightning round on tactics that are working? For example, is consistency still important?
Kate: Yes, consistency is key.
Jillian: Does that mean pinning every day?
Kate: Yes, daily. Even if it’s just once a day, you need to show up consistently. Now, that doesn’t mean you need to pin 10 times a day. If you’re a new business owner, just pinning once or twice a day or even engaging with the platform daily is enough.
If you need to share or reshare other people’s content, go ahead—that’s fine. However, I wouldn’t recommend relying on this strategy if you have a lot of your own content. The key is to stay consistent with daily activity, and using your phone to engage can be an easy way to do this.
What’s Working on Pinterest in 2024?
Jillian: For Pinterest 2024, what’s working well? For us, it seems like static images are taking the cake.
Kate: I’d agree with that. Pinterest has narrowed down to three main formats: video pins, product pins, and standard pins. And honestly, standard, or static, image pins are performing really well.
Speaking of Megan Porta, we were at her conference in Denver with 50 food creators, and it was fascinating. One person said video pins were performing great for them, while someone else said their videos were tanking. It really depends on your niche and audience, so you’ll need to check your own data. But for most of our clients right now, we recommend focusing on static images first, with video as more of a supporting element.
Pinterest for Content Creators vs. Product Sellers
Jillian: Does Pinterest work equally well for content creators and product sellers?
Kate: Yes, both. But content creators do have an advantage. On Pinterest, users are actively searching for solutions, much like on Google. They’re willing to click on an image that leads to a website. However, if the website doesn’t provide what they’re looking for, they’ll bounce quickly. Whether it’s travel, fashion, or food, content is king on Pinterest.
Even for product sellers, content plays a crucial role. You need to use content to engage your audience—share testimonials, before-and-after shots, and highlight the features of your digital or physical products. In short, content is essential for success on Pinterest.
How to Create Pins for Existing Content
Jillian: If I have content and a URL, how many pins should I create for that URL?
Kate: For an image strategy, if you’re new to Pinterest, start with one image and stick with it for three to six months to learn what works. After that, you can add a second image.
For something like earrings, you could create pins such as “How to style gold earrings with a black outfit” or “Best gold earrings for a wedding.” Get creative with the angles!
For example, if a recipe like your sourdough bread did well in 2020, you can continue to leverage it by creating pins like “Best sourdough bread for Thanksgiving” or “Perfect sourdough bread to bring to a family with a new baby.” There are many ways to repurpose existing content.
Jillian: Which performs better—old URLs or new ones? For example, if I posted a recipe in 2020 versus posting it on Pinterest in 2024, which one is more likely to do better?
Kate: Great question! If you create a new image for an old pin, that new image can still perform really well. If it’s an evergreen post, anything that’s connected to that content tends to do well.
For new content and URLs, your focus should be on optimizing for the current algorithm. It’s not just about knowing what works—like when I post about cleaning up Pinterest boards, I can create a fresh image and it will still perform well.
Related: Pinterest Images
The Future of Pinterest and Online Business
Jillian: What do you see coming down the road, both for Pinterest specifically and for online business in general?
Kate: Pinterest is shifting toward a more ad-focused approach, particularly catering to product sellers. Their recent “Pinterest Presents” event emphasized their goal to shorten the gap between discovery and purchase. They’re bringing in experienced leadership from Google, Venmo, and PayPal, signaling a commitment to improving results for small businesses. One new feature, “Performance Plus Ads,” is aimed at beginners, but it’s best to consult with experts when setting up campaigns.
As for Pinterest’s future, e-commerce will continue to improve, and they’re more supportive of creators than ever before. I’m hopeful that traffic and views will rise, but I’m also challenging myself to experiment with ads to grow our email list.
Looking at the bigger picture, I’m hopeful small businesses will gain more recognition. Personally, as my business and community evolve, I’m questioning whether I’ll continue past 2025. Many small business owners, especially those who’ve coasted, are reflecting on their future. It’s okay to pivot or step away if needed. The key is whether to simplify and be intentional about doing less, or to choose a different path. As a Gen Xer, life is changing, and many women, especially those balancing family and business, are rethinking their next steps. But I’m curious… what do you think business is going to do in 2025?
Business CHanges in 2025: Authenticity and AI
Jillian: The future of business is rooted in authenticity and human connection. While AI may disrupt some jobs, it will also create new opportunities. The key is staying open to learning and embracing curiosity. By staying vulnerable and being led by your audience, you’ll grow.
Right now, I’d focus on email—building real connections. Since COVID, many of us have shied away from in-person events, but pushing yourself to attend meetups, conferences, or coffee chats can lead to new perspectives and ideas.
I see AI as a huge opportunity. It’s a tool for innovation, much like how the iPhone led to Uber. While many aren’t familiar with AI yet, there’s potential to help others use it for everyday tasks, like meal planning. The key is to stay positive, embrace new technologies, and look for opportunities others might miss. In a world shifting towards AI, human connection remains at the heart of it all.
Kate: Yes, I totally agree!I recently joined a community of women focused on uplifting each other through networking, and it made me realize that true networking in 2025 isn’t about sleazy tactics—it’s about authentic connections and mutually supporting each other’s audiences.
This ties into an aha moment I had about AI tools, particularly when we discussed converting podcast episodes into blog posts. While this process has traditionally been done manually, I thought AI like Descript could automate it. But what I learned is that AI, while powerful, still needs careful training and prompts. It’s like onboarding a new employee—you can’t just hand them a manual and expect results. You need to train them properly, and that’s how we should think about integrating AI into our businesses.
This shift in mindset also came up in a conversation about AI and Pinterest images. There’s been a lot of concern about AI-generated images on the platform, but Pinterest’s move toward using AI in its ad system makes sense. It helps small businesses create high-quality visuals without the cost of professional photography. While there are ethical considerations around copyright, AI can be a responsible, powerful tool—think of it as another team member helping you grow your business.
Jillian: I have to admit, maybe it’s just my nature, but I’m always looking for the positive. And I really do see it around me. In fact, I’ve learned that if you can train yourself to spot where people are struggling, that’s like discovering gold.
Kate: Totally! Pinterest users typically begin with a pain point, not a brand. They search for things like “how to,” “where can I,” or “what about.” So, instead of assuming they already know about your brand, the key is to meet them at that moment—when they’re searching for solutions. That’s where you can really stand out.
Jillian: Do you think AI-generated images work on Pinterest right now? Should people be exploring tools like Midjourney? For example, could I use Midjourney to create an ingredient shot for a recipe, or even a finished product image? What are your thoughts on this?
Kate: You know, food is a unique category because people expect the images to closely match the actual dish they’re preparing. So I’d caution people to use AI images in the food sphere. If the AI-generated image closely resembles what your dish actually looks like, then it might work. But if the AI version is vastly different from the real thing, it could be misleading. People rely on images to guide them while cooking, so accuracy matters.
As for Pinterest, I haven’t seen a clear stance on AI images, but they’ve embraced AI in their ads platform, which suggests they’re open to it in some contexts.
Jillian: I completely agree. If you’re known for creating amazing recipes, it’s dishonest to present AI-generated images that don’t accurately reflect the final product. Your reputation and expertise are on the line, and if the cupcakes look nothing like the image, you’re not doing yourself, your blog, or your audience any favors.
However, with something like earrings, where you can swap out backgrounds or place them on a model, I can see how AI images might work, as long as the product itself is still accurately represented. Ultimately, it comes down to your own integrity in how you use AI tools.
Kate: Absolutely. You need to feel confident that the person on the other end can see and appreciate the authenticity. That said, I think that kind of genuine connection is becoming rare. What people often criticize are those who are outsourcing everything, especially offshore workers, just cranking out content.
It’s similar to what we see with affiliate marketing—some YouTubers claim you can make a lot of money by simply choosing a trending topic from Google, matching it with Pinterest trends, slapping on affiliate links, using AI to write the content, and creating AI-generated images. There’s no real personal touch in that process.
While most people are ethical about their images, those who aren’t tend to ignore advice on authenticity. Some people just don’t care about maintaining ethics in their work, and that’s something we have to recognize.
Jillian: This has been so great, Kate! I feel like we could chat for another hour on all the business changes happening. Let’s definitely do this again in a couple of months to see where things stand, since everything is changing so quickly.
Kate: Yes, it’s been so fun chatting today.
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